I don't think I'm being unreasonable.
Nov. 25th, 2008 07:32 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
summer_sparrowThat's a phrase my mom uses frequently in arguments. It seems an applicable title to this post.
My mom and I get along fairly well, most of the time.
When we argue, though, we basically enact the same scene over and over. I'm tired of it. I want to change it. I try to address the problem in every argument-- using the kind of PC words I hate but they're the only things that accurately describe what I'm trying to accomplish.
I have faults when I argue. I get loud. I speak with my hands, which can seem aggressive when combined with a raised voice. Even while keeping my arguments as logical as I can, I can get physically emotional (voice breaking, tears, etc).
My mom also has faults when she argues, and sometimes I feel like she doesn't believe that. She sometimes acts as if she is always reasonable. She's more reasonable than most people, I'll grant, but not nearly so reasonable as she thinks she is. And even less so in an argument. She doesn't want to talk about things. She wants to walk away from anything that might be upsetting or painful.
In my view, all that does is hurt. Perhaps it only hurts me. I will admit I have a serious issue with people walking away from me-- but then, I believe that if I can only find the right way to say what I mean, it'll finally get through, so when someone walks away from me, I have failed. Is this a fault? Perhaps it is, but it's a deep part of who I am. It's words, and they've always been my way.
Tonight we argued about something, and that's the reason for this post. We settled it, I guess, but I'm still hurting, and I need a place to vent that.
The original reason is entirely my fault. I'm a careless person. I'm working on it, but it's hard to change a longstanding aspect of yourself (absentmindedness, in my case). My mom doesn't seem to realize that it is difficult. It takes constant thinking about-- and when the problem is that things don't occur to me, I don't think about it, then that's twice as hard.
I left a bottle of nail polish remover on top of a book, on top of a table. I apparently hadn't closed the lid all the way, and this morning she knocked the table and the remover spilled. The table was made by her father, in high school. He died when I was four. She seems to almost worship the memory of him; she loved him beyond belief.
(That's something else that hurts; when she said "I don't think you can understand how important he was to me." Ah. I don't understand love? Thank you. That doesn't hurt at all.)
That was my fault, through the lack of attention that led me to forget to completely cap the bottle. I apologized, and continued unloading groceries from the car. She seemed to act as if she didn't accept the apology, something she frequently does. Or perhaps it's only how I perceive it; still, that's what I see.
So I said-- and it was horrible timing, but the concept has been seething in me for a while-- "Why is sorry never enough? I apologize for things but you don't ever seem to want to accept it."
She said that because I do things so often that require apologies-- sometimes the same thing multiple times-- that she finds it hard to accept my apologies. Fair point. I addressed it slightly above, but really, I'm not working as hard as I could to change it. I should be working harder. I should be doing better. I'm not. The thing is... what can I do? I have no TARDIS. I can't change it. All I can do is apologize and try to rectify the situation, if that's possible. And try to be better. Try.
Unfortunately, from there it degenerated a bit. I definitely yelled. The thing is-- I was hurt. I am hurt. So is she-- and I see that-- and I don't want her to be. But I would like to see some kind of recognition that I am hurting as well.
The gist of it has been the same in every argument, and here it is:
She feels that she can't say anything at all. That if she says anything, she's being unreasonable. She often says "I wish I hadn't said anything." Sometimes she says things along the lines of "Well, I guess it's my fault," "I guess I'm being a bitch/a harpy/etc." She wants to drop the conversation.
I wish I could see more from her eyes, elaborate more about what she feels, but all I can say are the things she's said to me. My own feelings, being my own, I can explain in more detail.
I feel the same way, that I can't say anything. Anything I say, repeats back at me as about five steps further and a bit meaner than anything I intended (and as far as I can tell, what I've actually said, but perhaps I'm not hearing myself as well as I ought to be). Anything I say seems to be taken as calling her unreasonable, a bitch, a harpy. I try to choose my words carefully; I try to explain that I'm not saying what is but rather how I feel, how it seems to me. Most of the time, I don't think she's being unreasonable (perhaps in how she says things, but not in the basis for her saying them). Most of the time, I try to understand what's going on in her head, and I feel I have a little bit of success in that. Her reasons usually make sense to me. Yet it seems as though there's nothing I can do or say to convey my reasons, thoughts, or apologies to her. She, who prides herself on seeing both sides of the argument, doesn't ever quite see mine. I find this extraordinarily painful. My mother, my friend, who is supposed to understand me better than anyone-- doesn't. Perhaps it's the severing of a tie that hurts so much; it's not something I ever expected to happen.
After we calmed down a bit-- well, she seemed to, but to be honest she was probably doing the same thing as I was and just suppressing it-- I tried to explain the things I've laid out in this post. She didn't want to discuss it, but it needs to be discussed at some point. It breaks my heart every time it happens, and we need to talk it out. Eventually she agreed to discuss it. If I needed that discussion, she said; we both need it, I'm not certain she understands that. We need to discuss it because it needs not to happen, and we have to figure out a way to do that. We hurt each other, and we need to figure out exactly what we are saying and doing that does it.
She seems to consider herself a diplomat, but in life she seems astonishingly adverse to discussions. I'm perhaps too prone to them; but as I said, words. I'm convinced, for better or for worse, if only there's enough talking, long enough, it can fix anything. Or at least resolve it.
She said if I wrote my feelings down, she'd write me a rebuttal--her words exactly. I'm not sure I want her to rebut my thoughts. I just want her to understand them. I... don't think that's unreasonable.
I'm considering showing her this-- what do you think? I mean, none of you know my mom, but what would you think if your daughter (whether you have one or not) gave you this?
I'm tired. I'm just... so damned tired.
My mom and I get along fairly well, most of the time.
When we argue, though, we basically enact the same scene over and over. I'm tired of it. I want to change it. I try to address the problem in every argument-- using the kind of PC words I hate but they're the only things that accurately describe what I'm trying to accomplish.
I have faults when I argue. I get loud. I speak with my hands, which can seem aggressive when combined with a raised voice. Even while keeping my arguments as logical as I can, I can get physically emotional (voice breaking, tears, etc).
My mom also has faults when she argues, and sometimes I feel like she doesn't believe that. She sometimes acts as if she is always reasonable. She's more reasonable than most people, I'll grant, but not nearly so reasonable as she thinks she is. And even less so in an argument. She doesn't want to talk about things. She wants to walk away from anything that might be upsetting or painful.
In my view, all that does is hurt. Perhaps it only hurts me. I will admit I have a serious issue with people walking away from me-- but then, I believe that if I can only find the right way to say what I mean, it'll finally get through, so when someone walks away from me, I have failed. Is this a fault? Perhaps it is, but it's a deep part of who I am. It's words, and they've always been my way.
Tonight we argued about something, and that's the reason for this post. We settled it, I guess, but I'm still hurting, and I need a place to vent that.
The original reason is entirely my fault. I'm a careless person. I'm working on it, but it's hard to change a longstanding aspect of yourself (absentmindedness, in my case). My mom doesn't seem to realize that it is difficult. It takes constant thinking about-- and when the problem is that things don't occur to me, I don't think about it, then that's twice as hard.
I left a bottle of nail polish remover on top of a book, on top of a table. I apparently hadn't closed the lid all the way, and this morning she knocked the table and the remover spilled. The table was made by her father, in high school. He died when I was four. She seems to almost worship the memory of him; she loved him beyond belief.
(That's something else that hurts; when she said "I don't think you can understand how important he was to me." Ah. I don't understand love? Thank you. That doesn't hurt at all.)
That was my fault, through the lack of attention that led me to forget to completely cap the bottle. I apologized, and continued unloading groceries from the car. She seemed to act as if she didn't accept the apology, something she frequently does. Or perhaps it's only how I perceive it; still, that's what I see.
So I said-- and it was horrible timing, but the concept has been seething in me for a while-- "Why is sorry never enough? I apologize for things but you don't ever seem to want to accept it."
She said that because I do things so often that require apologies-- sometimes the same thing multiple times-- that she finds it hard to accept my apologies. Fair point. I addressed it slightly above, but really, I'm not working as hard as I could to change it. I should be working harder. I should be doing better. I'm not. The thing is... what can I do? I have no TARDIS. I can't change it. All I can do is apologize and try to rectify the situation, if that's possible. And try to be better. Try.
Unfortunately, from there it degenerated a bit. I definitely yelled. The thing is-- I was hurt. I am hurt. So is she-- and I see that-- and I don't want her to be. But I would like to see some kind of recognition that I am hurting as well.
The gist of it has been the same in every argument, and here it is:
She feels that she can't say anything at all. That if she says anything, she's being unreasonable. She often says "I wish I hadn't said anything." Sometimes she says things along the lines of "Well, I guess it's my fault," "I guess I'm being a bitch/a harpy/etc." She wants to drop the conversation.
I wish I could see more from her eyes, elaborate more about what she feels, but all I can say are the things she's said to me. My own feelings, being my own, I can explain in more detail.
I feel the same way, that I can't say anything. Anything I say, repeats back at me as about five steps further and a bit meaner than anything I intended (and as far as I can tell, what I've actually said, but perhaps I'm not hearing myself as well as I ought to be). Anything I say seems to be taken as calling her unreasonable, a bitch, a harpy. I try to choose my words carefully; I try to explain that I'm not saying what is but rather how I feel, how it seems to me. Most of the time, I don't think she's being unreasonable (perhaps in how she says things, but not in the basis for her saying them). Most of the time, I try to understand what's going on in her head, and I feel I have a little bit of success in that. Her reasons usually make sense to me. Yet it seems as though there's nothing I can do or say to convey my reasons, thoughts, or apologies to her. She, who prides herself on seeing both sides of the argument, doesn't ever quite see mine. I find this extraordinarily painful. My mother, my friend, who is supposed to understand me better than anyone-- doesn't. Perhaps it's the severing of a tie that hurts so much; it's not something I ever expected to happen.
After we calmed down a bit-- well, she seemed to, but to be honest she was probably doing the same thing as I was and just suppressing it-- I tried to explain the things I've laid out in this post. She didn't want to discuss it, but it needs to be discussed at some point. It breaks my heart every time it happens, and we need to talk it out. Eventually she agreed to discuss it. If I needed that discussion, she said; we both need it, I'm not certain she understands that. We need to discuss it because it needs not to happen, and we have to figure out a way to do that. We hurt each other, and we need to figure out exactly what we are saying and doing that does it.
She seems to consider herself a diplomat, but in life she seems astonishingly adverse to discussions. I'm perhaps too prone to them; but as I said, words. I'm convinced, for better or for worse, if only there's enough talking, long enough, it can fix anything. Or at least resolve it.
She said if I wrote my feelings down, she'd write me a rebuttal--her words exactly. I'm not sure I want her to rebut my thoughts. I just want her to understand them. I... don't think that's unreasonable.
I'm considering showing her this-- what do you think? I mean, none of you know my mom, but what would you think if your daughter (whether you have one or not) gave you this?
I'm tired. I'm just... so damned tired.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
(no subject)
Date: 2008-11-26 06:26 am (UTC)Seriously. Tell her what you are going to tell her. Tell her simply but completely in words of few syllables. And then be done with it.
Do not write down your feelings for her to rebut. (What a horrible, horrible idea.) Do not keep attempting to explain once she doesn't get it the first time. Just say "Okay." and walk away.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-11-26 06:49 pm (UTC)I desperately wish that I could adopt
I'm not going to push for the conversation again. I think you're right. I'll just say "okay" and walk away from it. It's better for my sanity and probably won't give me ulcers like this is trying to do.
Thank you. :)